Cabin altitude 737 ошибка

Ну, наверно там где тема по IFly. Octavius ещё на IFly летает, если не изменяет память.

Если Bleed включено, Паки выставлены правильно (может от APU отбор идёт), если селектор altitude выставлен правильно, если точно закрыты и заблокированы двери, если окошко закрыто, если не нашли ответ в QRH…. а может просто разгерметизация? )) то тогда вниз до 12-ти и до  ближайшего порта, где есть техники ) Сим (по крайней мере в Х) тоже имеет свойство накапливать износ даже в дефолте. У меня как-то (очень давно) на Learjet45 при отключенных поломках  шасси не выпустились и реверс от неправильного использования перестал работать.

Октавиус летает :) Но мыслей что-то по этому поводу особых нет. Отбор от движков, Паки кондиционирования — это вроде всё включено у ТС.

Разве что действительно, возможно, не правильно выставлен селектор Altitude. В таком случае я могу посоветовать либо правильно ее таки выставлять (если летите на FL350, то и выставлять там 35000 и при дальнейшем наборе, если надо выше, то и там накручивать большие значения), либо сделать проще — в конфигураторе (можно через меню styles в самом симе, а можно даже через саму фмску в меню SIMU, но через меню сима удобнее), во вкладке CDU установить галку возле Auto send altitude data to cabin pressurization panel.

Сейчас попробовал полёт. Мне кажется решение в том,что я на земле выставляю высоту к нулю,а когда прохожу высоту перехода,дальше 10000 футов. Наверное по этому и срабатывает сигнализация. Может такое быть ребят?

Где конкретно вы выставляете 0? Там варианта два. В верхнем окошке (Flt Alt) нужно выставлять Ваш расчетный эшелон полета (как — я указал выше), а в нижнем (Land Alt) — превышение (в футах) аэропорта назначения над уровнем моря. При соответствующей галке в конфигураторе (о ней я указал выше) это всё вообще не нужно заполнять. Необходимо лишь следить, чтобы был включен отбор воздуха и паки. Эшелон перехода здесь вообще не причем. Это совсем из другой «оперы».

А вообще, по этой теме в Operations Manual к модели всё расписано.

В каждом полете происходит? Может неисправность какая?

Из мануала:

AUTO FAIL Light
Illuminated (amber) – automatic pressurization system failure detected:

• indicates a single controller failure when ALTN light is also illuminated
• indicates a dual controller failure when illuminated alone. — Ваш случай.

Из QRH

CABIN ALTITUDE WARNING

Condition: One or more of these occur:

•A cabin altitude exceedance
•In flight, the intermittent cabin altitude/configuration warning horn sounds and the CABIN ALTITUDE lights illuminate.

1. Pressurization mode selector……………………………MAN
2. Outflow VALVE switch………………………………CLOSE
3. If cabin altitude is not controllable:
Passenger signs……………………………………………ON
If the cabin altitude exceeds or is expected to exceed 14,000 feet:
PASS OXYGEN switch……………………………ON

AUTO FAIL

Condition: Automatic pressurization mode has failed.

1. Engine BLEED air switches (both)………………………..ON

2. Choose one:
◆AUTO FAIL light is extinguished:

◆AUTO FAIL light is illuminated:
Pressurization mode selector……………………ALTN

Go to step 3

3. Choose one:
◆AUTO FAIL light is extinguished:
Continue normal operation.

◆AUTO FAIL light is illuminated:
Go to step 4

4. Pressurization mode selector………………….………….MAN
5. Outflow VALVE switch………………………Adjust as needed
6. Passenger signs……………………………………………ON
7. If the cabin altitude exceeds or is expected to exceed 14,000 feet:
PASS OXYGEN switch……………………………………ON

Попробуйте это, на худой конец. А вообще, если у Вас отключены неисправности в меню ifly но это происходит вновь, то может это проблемы пиратки. Если версия лицензионная, то может установка прошла косячно? Попробуте переустановить самолет, используя установщик от Flight1 (красный самолет, а не обычный инсталлер).

Ну, наверно там где тема по IFly. Octavius ещё на IFly летает, если не изменяет память.

Если Bleed включено, Паки выставлены правильно (может от APU отбор идёт), если селектор altitude выставлен правильно, если точно закрыты и заблокированы двери, если окошко закрыто, если не нашли ответ в QRH…. а может просто разгерметизация? )) то тогда вниз до 12-ти и до  ближайшего порта, где есть техники ) Сим (по крайней мере в Х) тоже имеет свойство накапливать износ даже в дефолте. У меня как-то (очень давно) на Learjet45 при отключенных поломках  шасси не выпустились и реверс от неправильного использования перестал работать.

Октавиус летает :) Но мыслей что-то по этому поводу особых нет. Отбор от движков, Паки кондиционирования — это вроде всё включено у ТС.

Разве что действительно, возможно, не правильно выставлен селектор Altitude. В таком случае я могу посоветовать либо правильно ее таки выставлять (если летите на FL350, то и выставлять там 35000 и при дальнейшем наборе, если надо выше, то и там накручивать большие значения), либо сделать проще — в конфигураторе (можно через меню styles в самом симе, а можно даже через саму фмску в меню SIMU, но через меню сима удобнее), во вкладке CDU установить галку возле Auto send altitude data to cabin pressurization panel.

Сейчас попробовал полёт. Мне кажется решение в том,что я на земле выставляю высоту к нулю,а когда прохожу высоту перехода,дальше 10000 футов. Наверное по этому и срабатывает сигнализация. Может такое быть ребят?

Где конкретно вы выставляете 0? Там варианта два. В верхнем окошке (Flt Alt) нужно выставлять Ваш расчетный эшелон полета (как — я указал выше), а в нижнем (Land Alt) — превышение (в футах) аэропорта назначения над уровнем моря. При соответствующей галке в конфигураторе (о ней я указал выше) это всё вообще не нужно заполнять. Необходимо лишь следить, чтобы был включен отбор воздуха и паки. Эшелон перехода здесь вообще не причем. Это совсем из другой «оперы».

А вообще, по этой теме в Operations Manual к модели всё расписано.

В каждом полете происходит? Может неисправность какая?

Из мануала:

AUTO FAIL Light
Illuminated (amber) – automatic pressurization system failure detected:

• indicates a single controller failure when ALTN light is also illuminated
• indicates a dual controller failure when illuminated alone. — Ваш случай.

Из QRH

CABIN ALTITUDE WARNING

Condition: One or more of these occur:

•A cabin altitude exceedance
•In flight, the intermittent cabin altitude/configuration warning horn sounds and the CABIN ALTITUDE lights illuminate.

1. Pressurization mode selector……………………………MAN
2. Outflow VALVE switch………………………………CLOSE
3. If cabin altitude is not controllable:
Passenger signs……………………………………………ON
If the cabin altitude exceeds or is expected to exceed 14,000 feet:
PASS OXYGEN switch……………………………ON

AUTO FAIL

Condition: Automatic pressurization mode has failed.

1. Engine BLEED air switches (both)………………………..ON

2. Choose one:
◆AUTO FAIL light is extinguished:

◆AUTO FAIL light is illuminated:
Pressurization mode selector……………………ALTN

Go to step 3

3. Choose one:
◆AUTO FAIL light is extinguished:
Continue normal operation.

◆AUTO FAIL light is illuminated:
Go to step 4

4. Pressurization mode selector………………….………….MAN
5. Outflow VALVE switch………………………Adjust as needed
6. Passenger signs……………………………………………ON
7. If the cabin altitude exceeds or is expected to exceed 14,000 feet:
PASS OXYGEN switch……………………………………ON

Попробуйте это, на худой конец. А вообще, если у Вас отключены неисправности в меню ifly но это происходит вновь, то может это проблемы пиратки. Если версия лицензионная, то может установка прошла косячно? Попробуте переустановить самолет, используя установщик от Flight1 (красный самолет, а не обычный инсталлер).

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When something goes wrong while flying on the Boeing 737, we use the QRH (Quick Reference Handbook). We just have to find out the correct NNC (Non Normal Checklist) and then we just read it and execute it.

For some of these checklists, we have memory items, meaning we have to know by heart some actions.

I have listed 9 memory items:

  • Aborted Engine Start
  • Airspeed Unreliable
  • APU Fire
  • Cabin Altitude Warning / Emergency Descent
  • Engine Overheat
  • Engine Fire, Severe Damage or Separation
  • Engine Limit or Surge or Stall
  • Loss of Thrust On Both Engines
  • Runaway Stabilizer

Cabin Altitude Warning / Emergency Descent

Don oxygen masks and set regulators to 100%.
Establish crew communications.
Pressurization mode selector ......................................MAN
Outflow VALVE switch ....................................Hold in CLOSE
                                               until the outflow VALVE
                                         indication shows fully closed
If cabin altitude is uncontrollable:
     Passenger signs ...............................................ON
     PASS OXYGEN switch ............................................ON
     >> Go to the Emergency Descent () checklist
Announce the emergency descent.The pilot flying will advise the cabin crew, on the PA system, of impending rapid descent. The pilot monitoring will advise ATC and obtain the area altimeter setting. 

Passenger signs ....................................................ON 

Without delay, descend to the lowest safe altitude or 10,000 feet, whichever is higher. 

ENGINE START switches (both) .....................................CONT 

Thrust levers (both)..................................Reduce thrust to
                                                         minimum or as
                                                   needed for anti-ice                                                                        

Speedbrake...............................................FLIGHT DETENT

If structural integrity is in doubt, limit speed as much as possible and avoid high maneuvering loads.

Set target speed to Mmo/Vmo.

Both the Cabin Altitude Warning and the Emergency Descent checklists are likely to be used together.

So basically, when there is a problem with the pressurization system, we will get the CABIN ALTITUDE WARNING and we will hear a strong and annoying horn in the cockpit as you can see in the following video.

When the problem is identified, the first thing to do by the crew is to put on the oxygen masks and establish communication. When this is done, it is possible to cut off the horn, what they obviously don’t do in the video. Then you can work properly and in a less anxious atmosphere. 

Now the First Officer will put the pressurization mode selector to manual and close the outflow valve, trying to control the cabin altitude. If it works, then fine. If it doesn’t, then First Officer and Captain will do memory items for the emergency descent.

This can be slightly different from one company to another.

First Officer role:

Passenger oxygen: On
Seat belts: On
Landing/Turnoff lights: On
Start switches: Continuous
Transponder: 7700 and TA only. (Traffic Advisory only)
Declare Mayday and request QNH
Verify Captain actions and monitor.
Call TWO TO GO, ONE TO GO when approaching level off.

Captain role:

Over the Public Announcement system: EMERGENCY DESCENT X3.
On the MCP Altitude panel: Set 10000ft or lowest safe altitude.
Select LEVEL CHANGE.
Set a heading 45deg off the current heading and PRESS HEADING SELECT.
Manually close the thrust levers.
Put the speedbrakes to Flight Detent position.
Increase speed to VMO/MMO.
Reduce Rate of descent when approaching level off and retract speedbrakes.

Then the Captain will call for the NNC Emergency Descent, First Officer will go through and both verify they didn’t forget anything.

Finally, take some time to think about what to do next, diversion, inform number 1, pax, ATC…

It is important to remember that the most important thing is to put the oxygen mask as soon as we get the cabin altitude warning horn, especially in case of explosive decompression. This can lead to crew incapacitation due to hypoxia. Below is a table of the time of useful consciousness for different altitudes if you don’t put the oxygen mask.

Published by JohanAero

Airline pilot Boeing 737 type rated with about 3500 hours. I started my career as a drop pilot on Cessna 206 and Partenavia P68. I also used to do aerobatics on the CAP10 and a bit of seaplane with a PA18.
I want to share my knowledge and passion for aviation.
View all posts by JohanAero

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Markhkg

Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

Cabin Altitude Warnings

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:06 am

Hey experts, just curious on the following after touring in a B717 cockpit simulator and watching a video on the Helios accident…

1) What are the cockpit indications of a depressurization on a B737-CL?

I know that the cabin altitude alarm sounds past 10,000 feet and if the oxygen masks deploy at 14,000 feet, the blue «PASS OXY» light illuminates. But does the MASTER CAUTION or MASTER WARNING alarm light? Is there any additional lights that illuminate like «AIR

CON

«?

2) What are the the aural annunciations for a depressurization on a B717 flight deck? Is it a horn or Betty saying something? I accidentally mistook the Betty «ALTITUDE, ALTITUDE» warning for «Cabin Altitude» and donned the oxygen mask a little too quickly.

Thanks!

A320ajm

Posts: 588
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:57 pm

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Thread starter):
1) What are the cockpit indications of a depressurization on a B737-CL

I would guess a master warning light light would illuminate plus an aural warning. This is standard on most pressurised jets.

Quoting MarkHKG (Thread starter):
2) What are the the aural annunciations for a depressurization on a B717 flight deck

I don’t think there is one. Just the master warning alarm sound and the illumination.

Regards

A320ajm

User avatar
Jetlagged

Posts: 2564
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:00 pm

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Thread starter):
the blue «PASS OXY» light

On the 737 Classic the passenger oxygen light is amber, not blue.

The 737 cabin altitude horn sounds above 10,000 feet cabin altitude but does not trigger a master caution. However the pressurisation AUTO FAIL light should illuminate with cabin altitude above 13,875 ft (or 15,800 ft for digital controller). This would cause the master caution light to come on (with the AIR COND legend).

I don’t know about the 717, but on the distantly related MD80, above 10,000 ft cab alt there would be a warning horn, followed by a voice alert, a red CABIN ALT warning light and the Master Warning light.

Markhkg

Topic Author

Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 2):
The 737 cabin altitude horn sounds above 10,000 feet cabin altitude but does not trigger a master caution. However the pressurisation AUTO FAIL light should illuminate with cabin altitude above 13,875 ft (or 15,800 ft for digital controller). This would cause the master caution light to come on (with the AIR COND legend).

I find that really interesting…I just can’t get my head around the fact that a «cabin altitude» warning on, like, the DC-10 involves a horn, a red «MASTER WARNING» light and then a «Cabin Altitude» red warning annunciation light. So why isn’t an excess in cabin altitude a «MASTER WARNING» on the B-737?!  Sad (I’m thinking of Helios right now…)

pilotaydin

Posts: 2100
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:08 pm

at 14,000 feet cabin the masks SHOULD deploy, and then the master caution for OVERHEAD comes on…..

the takeoff configuration warning and the cabin altitude warning are similar in sound, but have nothing to do with each other as far as situation goes….

User avatar
Buyantukhaa

Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 2):
but on the distantly related MD80, above 10,000 ft cab alt there would be a warning horn, followed by a voice alert,

And besides that, the MD80 series has another interesting aspect (not sure if this is common on other types): in the cabin, a warning message is played on the PA «Decompression! Use the yellow oxygen masks! Decompression!» repeatedly. I found out about this when this system misfired, when flying on an

SR

MD8X about ten years ago. As the

FA

‘s were just serving dinner, everybody was very surprised. The

FA

‘s just shrugged, and then the Captain came on the PA and said, «ladies and gentlemen, sorry, it seems the tape had some problems, no decompression at all». Interestingly he made the announcement only in German, so the non-German speaking passengers were left wondering when their yellow oxygen masks would come down…

Markhkg

Topic Author

Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 5):
And besides that, the MD80 series has another interesting aspect (not sure if this is common on other types): in the cabin, a warning message is played on the PA «Decompression! Use the yellow oxygen masks! Decompression!» repeatedly

I’m aware of many modern aircrafts which are equipped with a pre-recorded announcement for use in the cabin. But the question remains, could these announcements be heard in the cockpit, with the door closed? My understanding is that such announcements are not played in the flight deck.

Incidentally, I recall a Boeing 747-200 (flown by TWA) decompression PRA that started by saying… «Do not be alarmed, but due to a decompression…» in a prim and proper British accent. So calm in comparison to what the flight attendants would be doing.

«PUT

ON

MASK! FASTEN SEAT BELT!»

User avatar
Jetlagged

Posts: 2564
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:00 pm

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:59 pm

Contemporary Boeing designs were all similar to the 737 Classic, excess cabin altitude is an intermittent horn only. So you can see where the philosophy came from. In adapting their cockpit design to two crew operation Boeing didn’t add much automation. Nor did they fully integrate all the warning systems.

In the Helios accident it is surprising that the crew were not aware that an intermittent horn in flight can only mean an excessive cabin altitude. They seemed to be focussed on the idea it was a false takeoff config warning. In that accident there would have been no AUTO FAIL light, or AIR COND caution, as the pressurisation system was in manual mode.

Whether the lights are amber or red makes little difference as long as the crew are properly trained and follow the correct abnormal procedures. The idea of prioritising warnings and cautions is more recent than the 737 Classic design.

davescj

Posts: 1406
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:36 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 5):
in the cabin, a warning message is played on the PA «Decompression! Use the yellow oxygen masks! Decompression!» repeatedly.

Out of curiosity, is this an computer generated PA or doe someone have to «manually» turn on the PA message? Do any cabin annoucement get made by the computer due to some other emergency w/o the crew having to make them/tell the automated PA to make them?

Thanks!!

Markhkg

Topic Author

Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Cabin Altitude Warnings

Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Davescj (Reply 8):
Out of curiosity, is this an computer generated PA or doe someone have to «manually» turn on the PA message?

The recording is automatically activated when the masks drop. Some carriers also opt to have a manually activated PRA system to announce emergency briefings such as a planned emergency landing or ditching.

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 7):
Whether the lights are amber or red makes little difference as long as the crew are properly trained and follow the correct abnormal procedures. The idea of prioritising warnings and cautions is more recent than the 737 Classic design.

Fascinating stuff for me — thanks for the input.

I would think though that when someone starts to get hypoxic, you need all the help you can get to identify the problem. If it were me I would have a voice that shouted, «DECOMPRESSION! LOOK

MY

CABIN ALTITUDE, BIG BOY!» and a dog to bite the flight crew if they did nothing.  Wink

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Cabin Altitude (Read 689 times)


Daniel Baker

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Cabin Altitude

Jan 14th, 2023 at 9:13pm

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I’m getting a Cabin Altitude warning on the 767 in flight from KATL to SKBO.  The landing altitude of the airport is 8358′, which I set on the overhead.  Pressurization panel shows 8400′

No windows/doors open.  Any ideas what’s causing this?

Thanks,

Daniel

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Markoz

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Re: Cabin Altitude

Reply #1 — Jan 15th, 2023 at 1:32am

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Could it be because the altitude air pressure at the arrival airport is lower than the cabin pressure at Cruise Altitude? Maybe by setting the landing altitude to 8400 feet, the cabin pressure is considered too low for passenger comfort.
Not sure how this works in real life, I guess a real world pilot, who has flown to Bogota, could answer your question better. Undecided


Mark Fletcher

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Daniel Baker

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Re: Cabin Altitude

Reply #2 — Jan 15th, 2023 at 2:31am

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Okay, thanks. So I guess that’s assuming the logic in the CS plane is working correctly?

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Fitch

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Re: Cabin Altitude

Reply #3 — Jan 17th, 2023 at 2:58pm

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Are you setting your Cruise Altitude on the overhead pressurization panel as well?

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Alex T

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Re: Cabin Altitude

Reply #4 — Jan 18th, 2023 at 3:49pm

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Fitch wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 2:58pm:

Are you setting your Cruise Altitude on the overhead pressurization panel as well?

There’s no way to do this in a 757 or 767, it receives cruise altitude from the CDU/FMS only. You do however have to reset the landing altitude window for every flight / descent.

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